tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post4066830278063522201..comments2024-01-02T23:04:02.489-08:00Comments on The Narcissist's Child: We weren’t all perfect angels… Sweet Violethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-83620668584455812282014-08-29T00:00:25.212-07:002014-08-29T00:00:25.212-07:00Where's the "like" buttons? I want t...Where's the "like" buttons? I want to like, like, like every line of your post and the following comments by readers and you... I'm sorry I have to post as 'Anonymous' here because it is the opposite of what I feel as I read along. What I feel here is known, and understood. Thank you for this oasis. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-55648423340083020362014-08-25T06:22:35.992-07:002014-08-25T06:22:35.992-07:00Teardrop, I have a very close and loving relations...Teardrop, I have a very close and loving relationship with my 31 year old daughter which is no proof that I didn't make some mistakes as a parent. The biggest mistake I made was allowing my narcissistic parents unsupervised access to her as a child. As an adult, she has corrected my mistake by having nothing to do with them.mulderfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500535934417551223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-777029277180449512014-08-24T23:59:19.135-07:002014-08-24T23:59:19.135-07:00Part 2
Emotionally healthy parents do not raise ch...Part 2<br />Emotionally healthy parents do not raise children to love them...that is actually a rather selfish parental point of view that can lead us to make poor parenting choices because if we are afraid of losing the love of our children, we will not make the tough choices that may make our children unhappy. And giving a child what s/he wants in a bid to win or keep the love of that child is a great way to nurture narcissism in the child as it gives them a sense of entitlement. To be good, effective parents we have to be willing to allow our children to be angry with us, to even "hate" us at times because only by doing the right thing (as opposed to pandering to the child so we don't "lose" their love) can we demonstrate to them that sometimes the right thing means doing something we would rather not do.<br /><br />Hindsight is much more perfect than foresight and, looking back, if I had it to do over again there are a few things I would change that, I think, would make all the difference in the world with respect to my kids. The very first thing I would do would be to cut all contact with my narcissistic mother...I would disappear off the face of the earth with respect to her and never allow her to see or influence any of my children. I would put my desire for my mother's love and attention (something that plagued me and led me to some very bad parenting decisions) away and learn to love myself instead...I came to this too late to help my kids because this is what drove me to marry a malignant narcissist who would be their male role model for 13 years. I would also not view my children as the centre of my emotional life because that also led me to some bad parenting as well as life decisions: when your child is your reason for living, you put a heavy burden on that child. And I would make better decisions with respect to who I allowed my children to associate with--both adults and peers--in their early years so they would be less likely to choose the "wrong" kind of friends when they were older.<br /><br />By asking if I succeeded in breaking the legacy you reveal that you believe that a single person, the daughter of a narcissist, has the power to break a genetic as well as parenting legacy. You set yourself an impossible task if that is what you are out to do: if your child has inherited the tendency towards narcissism, if the child turns out a narcissist, you will feel you are a failure; if the child has not inherited the tendency towards narcissism, you will feel you have succeeded when, in fact, that child carried no legacy for you to overcome. Rather than making this about you triumphing over a generational demon, perhaps a more productive goal would be to help your child develop to his/her greatest potential and to give yourself a break: your success or failure as a human being is not measured by whether or not your children are or are not narcissists, or even whether they do or do not love you: to believe that your children are the measure of your success as a human being is to heavily burden your children with a burden that is not really theirs. Live your life being a good and compassionate person, do what you know is right, even when it hurts you or disadvantages you, and protect your children from as much of the influence of toxic people as you can. You can't break a legacy that is passed down in the genes, but you can refuse to allow it to define you.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-78638644242633061652014-08-24T23:58:45.557-07:002014-08-24T23:58:45.557-07:00There is more to breaking the legacy than being a ...There is more to breaking the legacy than being a good mother to your own kids.<br /><br />The way your children turn out is the result of a combination of things: genetics, parenting, and outside influences (other people, their friends, the values of the society they grow up in). As a parent, you have control of only one: parenting. <br /><br />My children were born in the 1960s and early 70s. We knew nothing about narcissism then and the nature vs nurture debate was raging: some professionals thought that you child was solely the product of how you parented (the "tabula rasa" theory in which the child was thought to be a blank slate upon which the parents wrote) while others believed that it didn't matter what the parents did, the child would grow up to be whatever he was destined by his inborn nature to be. I have a child with Asperger's (a high-functioning form of autism that was unrecognized in those days) and the school psychologist was a "tabula rasa" kind of person who very blatantly blamed me for it because it was her belief that parents cause whatever problems their children exhibit. The truth was not know until long after he became an adult, and that psychologist's insistence (in front of him) that his choices were my fault irreparably ruptured out relationship because what he took from that was that he could do whatever he wanted and any unpleasant consequences were my fault. In true narcissistic fashion, he was convinced he was entitled to live his life doing nothing while I supported him and his lack of success in life thereafter was my fault because I failed him as a mother. How much of that is a result of his Asperger's (genius IQ but learning disabled) and how much of it is narcissism is still open to debate, but he has a first cousin with almost identical problems, which convinced me of the genetic component.<br /><br />While we have influence on our children, particularly while they are quite young, the older a child gets, the less influence we have. Recent studies have shown that by the time a child reaches his/her teens, parental influence and desire for parental approval fall far short of the influence of peers. Once a child starts school, they begin to learn values and interactions that they did not learn at home and they learn to value the positive attention of their peers. They also have the influence of family members outside of their parents...and a narcissistic grandparent can do untold damage to a child, particularly if the child has inherited a tendency towards narcissism him/herself.<br /><br />You cannot make a person compassionate and empathetic if s/he is not born with the capacity, and it doesn't matter if that person is your parent or your child: if they don't have it, it simply is not there for you to nurture. You can still teach a child right from wrong and give him/her good reasons to choose right even when wrong advantages them better (classic narcissistic choice), but you cannot make them care, except with regard to themselves. The classic "put yourself in her place" parental admonition is simply not understood by the narcissist, regardless of age. <br /><br />I do not have the power to break the legacy of narcissism in my family because I do not have the power to control everything in the lives of my children or their genetic inheritance. They had a malignant narcissist for a grandmother, I married a malignant narcissist so they had one for a stepfather. They had at least one aunt and one uncle and some cousins and second cousins who were obvious narcissists. And they saw people break all the rules of polite interaction that I taught them and they saw those people get unfair advantage as a result. They know right from wrong...they know what it means to be kind to others...those things I taught them. But whether or not they choose to exercise what they were taught is...and always has been...out of my hands. (see part 2, below)<br /><br />Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-39094957336556096572014-08-24T14:12:04.983-07:002014-08-24T14:12:04.983-07:00I just discovered your website. I am going to read...I just discovered your website. I am going to read every single entry. I am a mom to a 4 yr who we recently learnt has autism and I am learning I am a daughter of a Narssicist mom...life feels overwhelmingly sad.But I despreately need to know did you succeed in breaking the legacy? Are you a good mother and ur kids love u? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-73392873374363633652014-08-23T18:13:21.947-07:002014-08-23T18:13:21.947-07:00My mom was not abused either. She was the baby pri...My mom was not abused either. She was the baby princess of her family by 6 years, and the only girl (she had 3 older brothers). Every ancient family photo I see of her in childhood, she has this bratty little scowl on her face. My grandma did not even direct her to smile for photos, and yet everyone else around her is clearly catering to her. She was their baby. I witnessed her beat up my grandma when I was still a toddler. She did this while we were visiting her, in her own house. And I got to see how my grandma responded to my mother's rages; by putting up her arms over her head and cowering like a terrified child; trying to block my mother's powerful blows. The Witch then tossed my grandma out of her own house and locked the door on her. Grandma had to beg her way back into her own home. My uncles confirm my mom was always the temper tantrum queen. Her childhood rages did not subside when she had children of her own. She still does not see herself as an adult, even today; and she doesn't get that her own small children pandered to her raging tantrums out of fear, not out of the very misguided notion of "love" that her parents catered to her for. While I'm sure this is not the case for everyone, my mom was certainly *not* abused herself, but she *did* abuse me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-1943216506739093452014-08-13T03:17:12.630-07:002014-08-13T03:17:12.630-07:00The pov you write about here, Violet, from those w...The pov you write about here, Violet, from those who reject the entire concept of ACoNs, is as you say typical of narc parents. The dismissal, the contempt, the disdain, the projection of blame (well my kids weren't perfect so why should I have to be?). The problem with so many of these discussions is that they get completely wrong what's at the base of being an ACoN, as you point out early on in this post--the disrespect, lack of concern with our emotional well-being (my parents treated me like I was an inconvenient object in their home, not a small human). When I became old enough to actually articulate how bad that felt to me, then the smack down really began in earnest. Every effort at communication they construed as an "attack" on them. There are many different ways to raise children. No one handbook or era has the perfect way. But despite differences in approach to childrearing, nothing explains how narc parents treat their grown up children. The decades long after childhood wherein such parents continue the same clueless disdainful dismissive behavior and attitudes. This is the hallmark of narcissistic parents. It's not about "childrearing" folks. It's about NPD, and the inability AND unwillingness to genuinely love your child enough to take what they say to you seriously. To learn from them. My NM told me "you have nothing to teach me about parenting or family." When I told one of my former students, now a mother herself and a dear friend this, she said "that's crazy--your children are the ONLY ones who can teach you about parenting." When you refuse your child empathy, respectful engagement with what they need or are saying to you, when your attitude is "go away and get over it," there is something seriously wrong with you as a parent. Regardless of your approach to "child rearing." It's about your inability for genuine interpersonal relationship that doesn't prioritize yourself ALL THE TIME, which is the hallmark of NPD. People who are not ACoNs have no idea the damage these narcissistic parents do emotionally to their offspring. Dismissal, projection, shame-dumping, blaming the victim, refusing the 'hear' what they are telling you--these are all severe forms of emotional abuse. Narc parents will never accept that because they have a need in their own minds to see themselves as "good enough" parents because hell, they fed, clothed, read to (sometimes) their kids, got them toys and lessons. Without genuine care, concern, respect, engagement, and a willingness to learn from and grow with your child, you are not even close to being what Winnicott called a "good enough" parent. Not even close.Calibans Sisterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04817489284771105048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-55172441844954794402014-08-12T23:28:20.481-07:002014-08-12T23:28:20.481-07:00Some people don't want to listen because if th...Some people don't want to listen because if they did, and they took on board what we are saying, THEY would have to change something about their beliefs and world view...and they don't want to do that. Our existence and willingness to speak out puts them into cognitive dissonance: what we say runs contrary to what they believe. And they resolve that dissonance by discounting us...and some of them go further and actually try to convince us that we are wrong--about our own lives!<br /><br />I get messages from those people, people who want us to shut up because our stories make them uncomfortable, our stories challenge their world view and, rather than adjust that view to include us and our experiences, they wish to believe we do not exist and our stories are self-serving fiction. <br /><br />They can believe what they wish...they will anyway...but they are not allowed to spew their invalidation here.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-88586089398789019162014-08-12T23:21:45.313-07:002014-08-12T23:21:45.313-07:00I am sure being spoilt had some bearing on it, but...I am sure being spoilt had some bearing on it, but my mother never viewed herself as spoilt. She grew up in the 30s and 40s when gender roles were much more defined and she believed herself to be the unfavoured child because her brothers got more "priviledges" than she did: in other words, her older brother had a later curfew, so she was being treated unfairly, her younger brother was allowed to go somewhere unaccompanied and she wasn't. What she really wanted, at age 15, was to do whatever she wanted without limitations and she perceived that her brothers had that freedom (which they did not) and that she was being victimized because she was not given what she wanted.<br /><br />By the standards of her time, she was quite spoilt...my uncle told me that my mother, the only girl, was quite obviously their father's favourite (she was very coy and flirtatious, even as an older woman)...but it was during the Depression and WWII, so there wasn't much of a way to spoil her with stuff...she was just well loved. But for her, unfortunately, that was not enough.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-32912273861292906502014-08-12T23:14:55.941-07:002014-08-12T23:14:55.941-07:00Amen to that, Mulderfan. Both nature and nurture s...Amen to that, Mulderfan. Both nature and nurture shape us, and regardless of our inherent personalities, "nurturing" that is abusive, such as that you describe, cannot help but have an effect on our development. Even if you weren't the person getting beaten with the broom handle, you had to witness it, you were prohibited from coming to the aid of the victim, and you got the message that you weren't allowed to make mistakes unless you wanted to face some horrific punishment. That cannot help but shape your view of the world and even if your core personality was strong enough not to be warped by that kind of experience, it was not the kind of scene any child should have to witness.<br /><br />Unfortunately, there are people who believe this is acceptable behaviour on the part of the parent, and there are also those who refuse to believe that this kind of behaviour on the part of the parent exists...or if it does, then somehow the kid had to be at fault because all parents love their children except the occasional person who makes the news, like Casey Anthony.<br /><br />They simply do not want to know and accept the truth and, to protect themselves from unpleasantness, they want US to shut up. That's not going to happen here.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-28914180126832095412014-08-12T17:30:33.635-07:002014-08-12T17:30:33.635-07:00Authoritarian parenting...may it disappear forever...Authoritarian parenting...may it disappear forever. I think many of the narcissists today were raised by extreme authoritarianism. The next generation of parents flipped to extreme permissiveness, it seems. <br /><br />Like you, Violet, I went to libraries in search of knowledge. I had two children that were not easy-going babies. The book that helped me change "parenting patterns" was P.E.T. Do you remember that book? Parenting Effectiveness Training. The focus was on creating a "democratic family", not a dictatorship. (You're probably wondering if my ex read the book, aren't you? Nah, you probably aren't wondering even a second. He didn't, by the way. I was a married single mother. ha!)<br /><br />I don't think most people can imagine the lives of ACoNs. People like to pretend that as soon as a woman becomes a mother, she is magically imbued with motherly traits; that fathers suddenly reverse gears and focus on the child. I think society has been in denial about children's vulnerability and maybe that's because it's hard to admit how vulnerable we were as kids. There's not much a child can do about being born to someone who's trapped in a narcissistic personality. <br /><br />People just don't understand and I wish they'd reserve their ignorant opinions on the topic and simply LISTEN. ACoNs have had enough "invalidation" to last a lifetime and even if we have a fair amount of recovery under our belts, "invalidation" can be emotionally triggering. It takes a lot of courage to write about yucky parents. If parents were physically abusive, even sexually abusive, then people are more supportive. They can understand that type of abuse because it's "measurable." Narcissistic abuse, the sense that one is never seen nor loved for his/her self, is something people cannot measure and therefore doesn't exist. How do you understand something like that unless you've witnessed it directly or experienced it yourself?<br /><br />Hugs,<br />CZCZBZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09575206236892096611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-87504828597086966182014-08-11T10:28:22.717-07:002014-08-11T10:28:22.717-07:00Anon, I never wonder anymore. Whatever happened wa...Anon, I never wonder anymore. Whatever happened was put in motion before I was born. I didn't "break" them and it's not my responsibility to "fix" them. When we realize that, a huge burden is lifted.mulderfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500535934417551223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-66977983512104625132014-08-11T09:08:37.937-07:002014-08-11T09:08:37.937-07:00I wonder if spoiling your mother is what turned he...I wonder if spoiling your mother is what turned her into a narcissist. During her childhood the world did revolve around her and she never learned the lesson that it doesn't. It doesn't excuse any of her behavior - I just sometimes wonder what started it all. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-58661964438690990912014-08-11T05:04:49.930-07:002014-08-11T05:04:49.930-07:00When my NGC younger brother was led to my blog he ...When my NGC younger brother was led to my blog he maintained that I was the narcissist for writing a blog about ME. He's also made a lot of "suck it up" comments which, in effect, confirmed that I was writing the truth.<br />Doing what he knew, included my father beating my older brother unconscious with a broom handle because he spilled his dinner. Mother's best was ordering me to sit down and keep eating my dinner after I tried to intervene. I challenge adults to live with the fear that ruled our lives as kids and come out of it unscathed.mulderfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07500535934417551223noreply@blogger.com