tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post7252516211665666568..comments2024-01-02T23:04:02.489-08:00Comments on The Narcissist's Child: Thou shalt be an adult: The 10 Commandments of Dysfunctional Families Pt 3Sweet Violethttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-55365143481692170072012-09-24T10:57:54.583-07:002012-09-24T10:57:54.583-07:00Sorry to be so late in responding--for some bizarr...Sorry to be so late in responding--for some bizarre reason either Blogger or Gmail sometimes fails to notify me there is a comment awaiting moderation and when I remember to go in and check manually, there are usually a couple that missed me--like this one.<br /><br />I would give more credibility to the notion that my daughter inherited a genetic predisposition except for one thing: until NM came along, we cannot find any seriously N family members. If, in her case, it is heritable, then where did NM's come from? I was half raised by her parents--if their child rearing techniques were such that they resulted in an N child, surely I would have seen something of it? <br /><br />My one uncle spent several days with me after NM's perfidy with my children was finally revealed. My uncle, who was terribly ill and died just a couple of years after our conversation, had been hornswoggled by NM's tearful tales and manipulations into perjuring himself in court, testifying against me. He was sincerely apologetic and drove 16 hours pulling his AirStream (a carabvan) to tell me just how sorry he was for his part in it and to beg my forgiveness. Then he stayed on for a few days and answered a LOT of questions about NM, his younger sister, and by the end of our convo it was clear that he knew of no one in the family who behaved like she did (or had, when she was a teen and young woman and the town scandal). She was, in his opinion, a "one-off." This makes a genetic component more difficult to countenance.<br /><br />It is, of course, possible but I suspect more of an influence--she knew my mother in the years they were, from my standpoint, missing. She had been adopted by my other uncle and his wife, who was a carbon copy of NM. So, from the ages of 6 through 14 she was either in my mother's control or that of my aunt. And before she came back to live with me at 14, she was already sneaking out of the house at night to go drinking, smoking, drugging and partying with an older crowd who probably didn't know how young she was...all without my aunt and uncle catching a clue.<br /><br />In fact, when my uncle contacted me to let me know the kids were with him, he just wanted me to take my son--they wanted to keep my daughter--because the boy was in trouble with the law and they didn't want to sell their boat or zero their vacation fund to pay for his legal expenses: they had applied for my son to have a court appointed attorney and were turned down because they did not need the financial help. The judge told them to sell their boat or to use the money in their vacation fund to pay for an attorney for him, and rather than do that, they decided to give him back to me! But they wanted to keep my daughter--she was a good little housemouse, kissed up to them by doing cleaning and setting her brother up to get into trouble (she told me this herself) to keep them focussed on him and his misbehaviour, making her look like a paragon beside him. Yes, he was in real trouble and on his own, but I suspect it had more to do with a brain injury he suffered in infancy from spinal meningitis and the fact that NM withheld this info from my uncle and aunt, so he had gone 8 years without treatment: the brain injury was specific to a depressed "impulse control" centre.<br /><br />And so DD had been setting up DS for at least a couple of years, had been snooping in Aunt's correspondence for at least 5 years (when I wrote to my grandmother, without my knowledge she was forwarding my letters to uncle and aunt...and daughter was snooping in my aunt's desk and reading my letters--DD told me this herself--and never letting on she knew where I lived, about her new baby brother, or anything at all about me. Cold blooded.<br /><br />Genetic? Maybe--she sure behaves like her grandmother. But NM presented her with the archetypal role model to follow, complete with a six figure reward for being a flying monkey...Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-39082249746583918542012-09-12T00:15:43.446-07:002012-09-12T00:15:43.446-07:00Yah, I have begun referring to my daughter as NM&#...Yah, I have begun referring to my daughter as NM's "Mini-Me." As a young child (up to age 6) she was a sweet, lovely little girl but when NM spirited her away, she came back to be as a sullen, stubborn, rigid 14 year old. I took the whole family to counseling as the experience of being "abandoned" by your mother (that is what she was told), adopted by relatives and then abandoned for real several years later had to wrenching. She told the counsellor she was "fine" and the moron believed her!! As a teen she was sneaky and underhanded, not only after coming back to me, but she admitted to some of her sneaky behaviour when she was still with my aunt and uncle. She is no better as an adult: she is controlling and grasping and has only the most fleeting relationship with the truth, coupled, apparently, with a complete lack of conscience or empathy --SO much like her grandmother it is eerie.<br /><br />I don't expect it to change.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-46932204263748064922012-09-12T00:07:18.567-07:002012-09-12T00:07:18.567-07:00That, I think, is the chief difference between an ...That, I think, is the chief difference between an NM and a Malignant NM--the MNM goes out of her way to work against her child.<br /><br />Mine was an ignoring NM for most of my life. If there was something she wanted, she would stop ignoring me in order to do what she needed to do to exploit me. Once she got what she wanted (or decided she couldn't get it and she needed to back off and regroup), she would go back to ignoring me. I had no idea what the dynamic was at that time and I welcomed her periods of attentiveness. I did not recognize until years later that they existed ONLY as a lead up to her trying to get something from me.<br /><br />The gift of validation, I am sad to say, did not come as support to me. My uncles felt bad for 1) being duped by NM and 2) doing something wrong as a result. The validation was rather a side benefit of their remorse...unlike NM, they both had a conscience.<br /><br />My daughter, I am sad to say, by the age of 14 was a willing player in NM's schemes. Like all Ns, her loyalty lay where it benefitted her the most. Her grandmother undermined me and she sucked up to her grandmother--and was ultimately rewarded with a cash legacy in the 6 figures. Interestingly, after NM died, my daughter started sucking up to my father (whom she had pretty much ignored up to that point) but his estate went to his wife and it's doubtful anybody will see a penny of that money except her children.<br /><br />My daughter recently divorced her husband of 22 years, a real enabler. She took everything--he ended up living in a tent in a park in Colorado in the winter! He filled me in on her reaction to my blog and how she alienated some family members from me again with accusations and lies. I guess in some families, it never stops.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-72944931620594253422012-09-11T17:06:05.530-07:002012-09-11T17:06:05.530-07:00This is just heartbreaking and so indicative IMO o...This is just heartbreaking and so indicative IMO of the likli-hood your daughter is an N as well. She knew which side her Financial Future was buttered on. Additionally, showing her all the documentary evidence you had regarding HOW she (and your other children) were abducted from you, your efforts to regain custody, keep in touch with them through the years etc. made not one bit of difference to HER. She flat out refuses to accept reality and flaunted her "Grammie's Special Girl" status at every opportunity.<br />By the time my Nsis was in 5th grade, the daily upheavals between her and MNM became so intolerable, Dad brought them both to a Psychiatrist. (This would have ben in the very early '60's.) The Psychiatrist told Dad (who has always been a reliable reporter) they needed to be separated as they "were too much alike." (Smart man) Dad found a lovely, prestigious Boarding School within 2 hrs. of our house and Nsis was enrolled along with the DD's of other affluent families, politicians, "Hollywood Royalty." He ensured Nsis came home as frequently as she wanted for weekends etc. even though it meant he had to change his schedule often at the last minute to accommodate her and made all kinds of efforts to spend quality time with her. He sense of entitlement grew exponentially as she grew through adolescence and never stopped expanding.<br />She treated Dad very cruelly. It's a long story and I won't bore you but ultimately, Nsis was put in her place as an adult at the time of Dad's death. Somehow, despite the reality I had terminated the relationship with her concurrently with MNM, the "outcome" was all MY fault as I learned from my S/M. She was a nasty, sneaky child, a nasty, sneaky adolescent and a nasty, sneaky adult. Sh is MNM all over again. I believe your daughter is your NM all over again as well.<br />They flatly refuse to look at facts just as flatly as they refuse to engage in any type of introspection. They are constantly scheming, planning and take pleasure from inflicting pain on others. I'm so sorry, SV. I don't believe they ever change. As adults we are responsible for the choices we make. Many of us have had less than charmed childhoods. We don't perpetuate the the Legacy.<br />TWTundra Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12262066568878267648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-79059291421509447622012-09-11T15:25:10.346-07:002012-09-11T15:25:10.346-07:00Violet, wow, what a sad mess your young life has b...Violet, wow, what a sad mess your young life has been! Humans don't expect that a mother would work against their own child like yours did, perhaps that's why outsiders so rarely believe this abuse exists. It's not just being negligent, it's actually going out of their way to do harm while pretending they are normal loving mothers to the outside world. The fact that your daughter has been twisted and tainted against you is really heart-breaking...I really feel for you. It's a gift that you got validation from some people..that rarely happens!<br />Thanks so much for sharing...take care.Trishahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07023642047160256083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-5637918404462883162012-09-09T23:49:21.814-07:002012-09-09T23:49:21.814-07:00When my NM's plot finally came to light, numer...When my NM's plot finally came to light, numerous members of the family changed sides, particularly those she had duped. My NM knew my grandmother would never stay silent on her own, so according to my grandmother, NM got a court order ordering her and my grandfather to not reveal anything about my kids. I never saw the court order but I saw no reason to disbelieve my grandmother, especially since she was the one who actually spilt the beans in the end and told me where the kids were.<br /><br />My uncle Gary, NM's older brother whom she ordinarily despised, was conned into perjuring himself in court to "save those poor babies." He later drove 1200 hundred miles to personally come see me and apologize for his part in it. My uncle Pete, NM's worshipped little brother and adopter of my children, was horrified when he found out what REALLY went on, that he had believed all of her lies, especially when he discovered she had withheld vital medical information about one of the kids (I am sure she thought they wouldn't want to adopt him and then she'd be stuck with him)--he had a brain injury as a result of spinal meningitis in infancy and behavioural problems as a result. His doctor had him on Dexedrine as a controlling drug--she acknowledged that he was on the drug in court, but claimed I was "drugging this poor baby" rather than tell the judge the truth.<br /><br />My aunt and uncle had no idea, but my daughter, who was 14, was already starting to show behavioural issues. She had them convinced she was the perfect child (in high contrast to her brother who had now gone 8 years without treatment or medication for his problems)--what they didn't know is that she was sneaking out at night by going out her bedroom window and climbing down a trellis and partying until the wee hours of the morning.<br /><br />When she came to live with me she was outraged that I caught on to her subterfuge, that she could not fool me...she actually convinced a family counselor (I had the whole family in counselling as soon as I got the kids back) that she was just fine with the change--and how the counselor could believe that I'll never know! But when I did not turn out to be the pushover my aunt and uncle were, the battle was on.<br /><br />The validation I first got was from my uncles...when NM died, her younger brother refused to attend her memorial service--he was building houses on a Reservation in North Dakota for Habitat and he said that was more important. My father and step-mother, my grandmother, both uncles, all validated me and condemned my NM, although my grandmother, I think, forgave her in the end.<br /><br />NM acted towards me like nothing ever happened! And continued, unknown to me to undermine me with my daughter. Like any unenlightened DoNM, I still wanted my mother's love and approval and it wasn't until she died and the depth of her--and my daughter's--perfidy was revealed in her will that I truly began to see reality, including the reality of my daughter. She should have been NM's child.Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-35222310543208855452012-09-09T15:37:52.370-07:002012-09-09T15:37:52.370-07:00I'm also gonna suggest there may be a genetic ...I'm also gonna suggest there may be a genetic component here in addition to the obvious benefits of being "G'ma's Little Golden Girl" for your daughter. It's interesting to note at least some of us have full siblings who grow up into "MNMs all over again." By the time Nsis was in her late teens/early 20's, Dad had set her up with her own apartment in Manhattan, secured employment for her through his business contacts and her profound sense of entitlement was clearly in evidence. She took MNM's side completely when Dad initiated divorce proceedings ensuring she would forever remain "Mommy's Golden Girl," unlike me, who insisted I would continue to have a relationship with my father. Nsis was a nasty child, a nasty adolescent and later a nasty adult. She "rescinded" her threat to "Never see Dad again until his funeral" when Dad informed her of the Divorce proceedings (she would have been about 20/21) a few years later when Dad and S/M allowed her access to their lovely homes when she needed an all expenses paid vacation. My S/M (a great lady) was notably "absent" for these "visits" which ended abruptly when S/M discovered my typically sneaky Nsis helped herself to a picture of S/M-not the one visible in the frame, but the one BEHIND it. In the 15 yrs. of Dad and S/M's marriage prior to Dad's death, Nsis never ONCE met her face to face. Meanwhile, I was completely NC with her as I had been with MN Psychobitch (my personal "Two-fer" ;) ) Somehow it became MY fault that Nsis was not notified about Dad's death. My sense is Dad and S/M had discussed this and decided she would not have her "See you at your funeral" statement fulfilled. His death was sudden and frankly, neither S/M nor I thought of her and certainly, S/M would NOT like to meet Nsis at such a traumatic time. When Nsis called a few weeks after Dad's death and S/M informed her of Dad's death, her first statement was, "WHAT did TW GET?" S/M responded very evenly, "TW didn't ASK for ANYTHING." I didn't; that was up to his widow/my SM. Please consider your daughter may have more going on here than denial and economic incentive: How typical you can show them documentary evidence that refutes their beliefs and they were not even PRESENT when the events took place and STILL not make a dent in their sense of absolute infallibility: She sounds/behaves just like Nsis: They have this rock-solid, inflexible, never-mistaken, never mis-informed profound characterlogical "ALL ABOUT MEEE" that's not only illogical but impenetrable. (sigh. Sound familiar?) <br />I know saying this doesn't relieve your heartache or in any way mitigate your frantic and heart-breaking attempts to protect your children. Our adult worlds are lived primarily in the "Grey Areas" between polarities: That does NOT mean we don't have absolutes or the ability to call evil/unacceptable when we see it/experience it. The world of MNs does not allow for elasticity, ever and their unshakeable sense of self-righteousness is exactly that. Genetics may play a role, but I remain convinced so do environmental factors. Willful and conscious denial of reality serves them well. My apologies for the length of this reply.<br />TWTundra Womanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12262066568878267648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-46797656078416167332012-09-09T12:28:05.326-07:002012-09-09T12:28:05.326-07:00If your daughter is a narcissist it does seem more...If your daughter is a narcissist it does seem more unrealistic to think she'll awaken one day. Have you been able to get validation from anyone in your FOO? <br />There's no-one in my foo that is introspective enough to grasp this concept, except one older brother, the golden child...ironically we became kind of close in our mid teens on...which INFURIATED my crazy mother, but he died in '95. <br />Trishahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07023642047160256083noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-82158122037839224082012-09-09T02:59:42.632-07:002012-09-09T02:59:42.632-07:00Oh, I am sure she was setting me up to fail. One m...Oh, I am sure she was setting me up to fail. One memory, indelibly imprinted on my mind was a terrifying episode in which she reacted to my saying that I had "tried" at something but had been unsuccessful, and that enraged her. It continues to stick in my mind because it was perhaps the first time I was absolutely clear that she was nuts...truly, certifiably nuts. I don't recall what I had failed to accomplish but I do remember her dragging me into the bathroom by my hair and making me stand by the sink while she turned the taps on high. She was screaming at me about how "trying" wasn't good enough, it accomplished nothing, how she never wanted to hear the word from me again--I was just to do it, no matter what. Then she pointed to the stream of water flowing forcefully from the tap and told me I was to do what I was told, and if she told me to tie a ribbon around that flowing stream of water from the tab, I was to DO IT without complaint, question, or saying I couldn't. It was totally crazy because we BOTH knew what she was saying was impossible and yet she made it very clear that if she demanded the impossible of me, I was to accomplish it without complaint (which she called "backsass"). Being set up to fail was "life as usual" in her household.<br /><br />My daughter has read my blog--at least the 46 Memories. She pronounced them lies and forbade her husband and son to have any contact with me, then sent a link to other family members, telling them the stories were lies and that when people read them and recognized us, it would make the family look bad. The inherent contradiction there apparently did not occur to her...if they were lies, we couldn't possibly be recognized, could we? And if we WERE recognized, then the stories would have to be true, wouldn't they?<br /><br />What has recently occurred to me is that my NM ultimately succeeded in her quest, back when I was pregnant with my daughter, 17 and unmarried, to take my child away from me. First she tried to take me to Mexico for an illegal abortion, then she tried to force me to go to a home for unwed mothers and give the baby up for adoption. I had to get a court's permission to marry because she refused it, and when the baby was born she cut ties with me, telling me that I had made my bed, now I had to lie in it and she would not help me, no matter how tough things got. I am sure she was hoping I would be unable to take care of my child and have to give her up to the state.<br /><br />I managed to eke out a living (although she and her husband owned businesses and could have given me a decent job) until her precious younger brother turned up childless and unable to adopt. After two years of legal shenanigans and subterfuge, she managed to get a guardianship of my children--she took the "baby" away from me as she had tried to do years earlier--and gave them to her brother for adoption.<br /><br />But it didn't stick, and eight years later the children were back in my care, so NM simply found another tactic--undermining--to achieve her goal. And so, in the end, she succeeded in taking my daughter away from me, which was her intent from the moment she knew the child existed. My daughter was so enmeshed with my NM and benefitted so much from that association, I do not believe she will ever admit to the truth...to do so would be to admit she's been lying herself, and what N would ever do that??Sweet Violethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08321094659806702782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4333405565931840271.post-52817931129018443062012-09-08T13:16:39.137-07:002012-09-08T13:16:39.137-07:00When you said, "One of the downsides of havin...When you said, "One of the downsides of having a high intelligence and your NM knowing about it is that she presumes knowledge you don’t have, or an ability to figure things out despite a lack of applicable information." I had to wonder if your nm was also attempting to set you up to fail...to try to bring you down, to try and remove any reassurance being bright would offer. If she was criticizing you...how smart were you? (her thinking, not mine)<br />Her request that you sit on the guys lap was her pimping you out...disgusting. I hope your daughter reads your blog one day and the light goes on and she realizes what you lived. <br /><br /><br />Trishahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07023642047160256083noreply@blogger.com